On Norman Mailer and His Latest Opus: The Castle in the Forest
Karin Finell -- February 27, 2007
Karin reports on David Ulin's (book editor of the LA Times) interview with Norman Mailer in the Writers Guild Theater in Beverly Hills, on C-Span. February 2007.
Mailer began by talking about the devil and little devils taking over Hitler's soul at birth and influencing him during childhood. He explained his belief, by stating he used to be an Atheist. "God is the Creator and not a law-giver, I can't imagine God dictating to a bunch of old scribes to write down his laws, to be later scrutinized and discussed. But God has created us and in a sense we are his children and much as we learn from our own children, God learns from us and needs us."
When asked about the difference between fiction and nonfiction he answered: "There is no such thing as nonfiction. It's all fiction. It is thought representative of reality. All of it. Fiction itself is a closer approach to existence itself than non-fiction. In fiction you try to create some sort of structure -- the reader will get to the heart of it and fiction will give a better notion of reality. A good novel is always saying; 'This is my hypothesis of what is happening in reality.' Nonfiction deals with facts that are not reliable. With fiction you know it isn't true, so it nails you when it feels true."
He said he enjoyed writing nonfiction because he knew the end of the story. In a novel you don't know, where do you send the young protagonist before the end? In fiction your protagonist grows close to you, you worry about him. Does he go to Israel or not. In nonfiction you don't worry, you know so-and-so won't go to Israel. You worry about style.
He was asked if it didn't bother him that some readers found Hitler a sympathetic character in his most recent novel.
Mailer: "Law of fiction: In scenes when making a person three dimensional, you also make him partially sympathetic because we identify to a certain extend with the protagonist. This was a certain hazard when writing the Hitler book. Hitler went beyond the boundaries of good and evil. Stalin who killed many more people than Hitler, is comprehensible. Stalin believed 100 % in what he was doing--in power--there was logic in his excesses. But Hitler was a mass murderer who used metaphors, calling Jews and Gypsies and others an Evil Virus that had to be exterminated. The metaphor made the act more diabolical than just evil alone or lust for power. Stalin was simple compared to the metaphorical thinking of Hitler.
"We still see some of the damage that Hitler left behind: Political Correctness is one. This is a virus that Hitler left us, a direct result of the reaction to Hitler.
"Hitler gave an immense impulse to technology. He looked for powerful solutions that were technological. 'Let the machines do it.' A regrettable legacy of Hitler."
What has changed in the process of writing fiction?
"Now I am a professional and write a certain amount of pages each day. Even on a bad day. I have had dark thoughts about how lucky poets are, or short story writers. In a short story you live with a character and leave them in a few pages for another. We novelists are married to a good character and have to work every day. Every day."
In the morning he edits what he wrote the evening before. "When you are young you are so vulnerable and if someone doesn't like what you wrote, you may never write again. But when you are older you are married to your work and you go on. "
During the question and answer period, Mailer responded to some well considered and thoughtful queries.
On evil: "When you are evil, you take pleasure in doing evil things to people. But evil people often do not think they are evil. Hitler thought he was inspired by God. Stalin grew up as a young seminary student. Very few monsters in history see themselves as evil."
About Kennedy and our fascination with him: "The 50's was such a dead-ass period, because people found the presidents boring and they were, and they had plain wives. FDR and Eleanor were followed by Truman and Bessie, then Eisenhower and Mamie, then Kennedy and his beautiful wife arrived on the scene. He looked like a skiing instructor but had the brains of a physics professor, and along with his fine mind and he spoke well. It is important that a president speaks well. When a president is inarticulate, it debases the minds of the people. "
How do you see President Bush as a president? "As the most ignorant."
When asked which writers he reads. "I don't read the fine authors any more. I don't have that much time any more. I am eighty-four-years old and have to devote my time to my writing. Reading a really good novelist puts me into competition with him, and I can't do that any more. Who knows if my mind is still as good as it is now, three years from now."
When questioned about his beliefs: "Reincarnation makes sense. The nature of God. It's much more difficult to explain Atheism, how we got to wherever we are from a couple of sperm cells. The trouble with believing in God is that you believe what you were taught to believe. There is the ritual. But God is more existential than that. He/she can do the best with what we do, God shares our fate, if we destroy ourselves we destroy God with us. There is an emptiness in Atheism that I have left behind."
You can learn more about Norman Mailer on PBS: American Masters, Norman Mailer.org